Free Will: Campus Politics
Recorded: November 6  Posted: November 9
DenvilleSteve wrote on 11/09/2008 at 05:40 PM
the enormity of the anti Bush comments
hah, so I now know the definition of "enormity" and Barack, "I dont have any Black or Hispanics in my inner circle of policy and campaign advisors" Obama does not.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...pe-Earth.html#
Stating that Bush is leaving a mess for the annointed one to clean up is a monstrous offense to dispassionate reasoning. The middle east is an order of magnitude safer now compared to the simmering cauldron that Clinton handed over in 2000.
Saddam is gone, the Saudis are tightly allied with the US ( pumping a lot of oil, driving down the price ), Iraq is peaceful and undivided, the Palestinians are quiet ( sadly, the enormity of the Israeli occuation continues ), Western forces can strike at will at al Queda in Afg, Pakistan and Somalia, Syria did not seem to mind the US attack on the insurgents in that country last month, still no nukes deployed by Iran, Bin Laden does not dare step out of his cave ...
The financial crisis is a huge problem, but that is the fault of the democrat's housing policy. Russia is resurgent a bit, but the criminal class that runs that country may be hurt at lot by
TwinSwords wrote on 11/09/2008 at 05:43 PM
Re: Free Will: Campus Politics
Michael Berube? Wow.
Best guest ever! Thank you again, BHTV.
Wonderment wrote on 11/09/2008 at 07:12 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Stating that Bush is leaving a mess for the annointed one to clean up is a monstrous offense to dispassionate reasoning. He wasn't annointed; he was elected.
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 07:23 PM
Re: Free Will: Campus Politics
Quoting TwinSwords: Michael Berube? Wow. My reaction, too. Anyone here who isn't already reading American Airspace regularly -- do.
I really liked the part of this diavlog about the supposed dominance of liberal thought on campus. I wonder if anyone who believes in this (as conspiracy) will be at all persuaded by Michael's distinction between (largely non-existent) classroom indoctrination and the real effects of students just being exposed to a more cosmopolitan environment.
Michael's point about on-campus lectures being poorly publicized also really hit home. That was one of my regrets about my time in college -- that I didn't realize until it was just about over how many opportunities like this I had missed. I imagine it's potentially different nowadays with everyone having email and omnipresent Internet connections, as opposed to having to know to look for a flyer on a certain bulletin board in a building you'd have no other reason to enter. On the other hand, having the new channels of communication also means that there are that many more things competing for your attention.
Mari Dupont wrote on 11/09/2008 at 07:25 PM
Re: Free Will: Campus Politics
That was really entertaining; I'm sure many conservatives/libertarians can relate to Will's classroom woes. Regarding the discussion about credential snobbery: even though many conservative writers and pundits are elitists, they will never match the credential worship of those on the left as long as the legacy of Ronald Reagan, Eureka-College-grad-turned-actor remains the standard for which to aim. On a related note, while I want my president to be "educated" I wouldn't hold him/her to the standards that I'd ask of a supreme court justice. So much of politics is communication and connection, and these talents aren't easily taught.
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 07:29 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Quoting DenvilleSteve: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...pe-Earth.html# From the above:
Proper books, recording his sordid associates, his cowardly voting record, his astonishingly militant commitment to unrestricted abortion and his blundering trip to Africa, are little-read and hard to find. You have to wonder whether this guy has ever heard of Amazon. (I suppose he might be narrowly correct, if he is here dismissing Corsi, et al, as not offering "proper books."
And:
They also know the US is just as segregated as it was before Martin Luther King ... Just ... wow. Why do you bother reading such nonsense, Steve?
Quoting DenvilleSteve: Stating that Bush is leaving a mess for the annointed one to clean up is a monstrous offense to dispassionate reasoning. Well, sure. Haven't you heard? 99% of the country has been hypnotized into believing this. Good thing you've been keeping your eyes and ears closed, so as not to be affected.
bkjazfan wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:02 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
The art of communicating and connecting with others is not directly taught but could be enhanced by a college experience. Then again some of the best persuaders have limited formal education.
I have noticed with physicians (M.D.'s) in particular their communication skills on average are nothing to shout about..
John
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:10 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments (PS)
Interestingly, the column that Steve linked to is by Peter Hitchens.
Interesting to see Steve appealing to him as an authority, given the rest of Steve's comments about the wondrous George W. Bush and the wonders he accomplished in the Middle East.
You might have a look at Peter debating his older brother on, among other things, the Iraq invasion. (Don't let the title throw you -- the first half of the debate is about Iraq.)
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:12 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Quoting bkjazfan: The art of communicating and connecting with others is not directly taught but could be enhanced by a college experience. Then again some of the best persuaders have limited formal education.
I have noticed with physicians (M.D.'s) in particular their communication skills on average are nothing to shout about..
John Is this a reply to Mari?
DenvilleSteve wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:13 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Quoting bjkeefe: From the above:
You have to wonder whether this guy has ever heard of Amazon. (I suppose he might be narrowly correct, if he is here dismissing Corsi, et al, as not offering "proper books."
And:
Just ... wow. Why do you bother reading such nonsense, Steve?
Well, sure. Haven't you heard? 99% of the country has been hypnotized into believing this. Good thing you've been keeping your eyes and ears closed, so as not to be affected. it is worthwhile to read Peter Hitchens simply to learn that Obama does not know the meaning of the words he uses. ( I did not know what it meant either ).
regarding segregation in America, it is very real and judging by the abscense of people of color in Obama's inner circle, that segregation will not change much. Note the first action of the democrats will be to spend $50 billion to rescue the car industry so the privledged auto workers can stay that way. Is that money supposed to trickle down to the underemployed in urban america?
After democrats spend the country's money on a narrow group of workers, Larry Summers will cutoff the spending. There will be little remaining to
chrisn wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:16 PM
Re: Free Will: Campus Politics
English gives you analytical tools...well so do philosophy and logic, and expecially so does science, so why not enter one of those fields...?
If you want to use your intelligence, I don't recommend studying the jumble of "meta" lit-crit, politics, and social commentary that many current liberal arts programs offer. (always somewhat metaphysically aimless I admit, but perhaps particularly so right now). You may be better off reading in your spare time.
If you want to be a good artist (and if you go study English, you will hopefully be bathed in the creative imaginations of great writers and you probably want to be an artist) you may want to consider options...
Or you can try and stake your claim in the overly PC, aimless, meta world of texts (what is a text?) as Berube is doing.
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:26 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Quoting DenvilleSteve: regarding segregation in America, it is very real and judging by the abscense of people of color in Obama's inner circle, that segregation will not change much. Note the first action of the democrats will be to spend $50 billion to rescue the car industry so the privledged auto workers can stay that way. Is that money supposed to trickle down to the underemployed in urban america? A paragon of non sequiturs.
To the larger point: I am not denying that racial discrimination is not still a real problem. I am denying that "the US is just as segregated as it was before Martin Luther King."
bkjazfan wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:27 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Quoting bjkeefe: Is this a reply to Mari? Sorry, it was a reply to Mari.
John
DenvilleSteve wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:30 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments (PS)
Quoting bjkeefe: Interestingly, the column that Steve linked to is by Peter Hitchens.
Interesting to see Steve appealing to him as an authority, given the rest of Steve's comments about the wondrous George W. Bush and the wonders he accomplished in the Middle East. I think it is useless to make an assertion without backing it up with facts and examples. BHTV participants are constantly saying Bush is a disaster. They rarely follow that statement with an explanation. Carter was a bad president because he wrecked the economy and gutted the military. Clinton was bad because of his partisan rhetoric ( someone ( "republicans" ) is burning black churches ), inaction against terror attacks, Somalia, Waco and Ruby Ridge, abuse of presidential pardons )
what exactly did Bush get wrong on foreign policy? If the answer is Iraq, you have to explain how the ME would be peaceful with Saddam and the Baathists still in place.
It looks like Obama is going to roll back missile defense from Poland. A cowardly act, that is a good start for his presidency.
claymisher wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:37 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Yeesh. All these loony forecasts of doom about the upcoming Obama administration are going to sound even dumber four years from now than they do now. I don't think the wingers actually believe their forecasts. It's just how they're expressing their displeasure.
I'm expressing my displeasure too -- I have just about had it with journalists and pundits speculating on what Obama's really going to do, reading the tea leaves, looking for an angle. You know what Obama's going to do? What he said he'd do. He's spent two years talking about, 23 or so times debating, and written a whole book on what he's going to do. That's what he's going to do. Obviously we have checks and balances in our system so a lot will depend on what Congress wants. But the man has campaigned on a progressive agenda, fought off attacks on the progressive agenda, and won. So I'll bet on: a progressive agenda.
Blackadder wrote on 11/09/2008 at 08:58 PM
Liberal Economics
I share Will's perplexity at the resistance of many liberals to the sorts of economic arguments typically put forth in favor of using market mechanisms as a means to bring about liberal ends. I don't know if this is simply a hangover from Marxist theory, or if it's based in something along the lines of Issac Asimov statement that he couldn't understand economics and therefore couldn't shake the feeling that it was all made up. But whatever its basis, the tendency Will is describing is quite real.
Ocean wrote on 11/09/2008 at 09:20 PM
Re: Free Will: Campus Politics
Quoting bjkeefe: I really liked the part of this diavlog about the supposed dominance of liberal thought on campus. Although I'm not going to comment on the general theme of this diavlog as it remains rather obscure, I did want to comment on the segment about students in Liberal Arts campuses. I find the description of opportunity for learning and for intellectual expression enviable. Coming from a country where there is no college, since students go from High School to Medical School directly, I missed an entire experience which is so essential for intellectual development. On the other hand, and as an outsider to this culture, I can also see the less appealing aspects of this tradition. There is a sense of there is only one way to get from here to there. I'm not underestimating the importance of formal education, but I'm concerned that in a way it does limit creativity. I wonder how much of what I see as a difference has to do with the origin of the American model of education, which I will assume is mostly British, while I was educated in a French-derived model. Are there any experts on this topic
Unit wrote on 11/09/2008 at 09:28 PM
Re: Liberal Economics
I completely agree. Market fans have been shun by the Republicans the last 8 years, have been made to be the culprits of every disaster including the Irak war, and now with Democrats who don't seem that Clintonesque in power they will once again be squashed. So much for "liberal" education. What's so liberal about centralization of power and decision-making? What's so liberal about punishing foreign technology and protecting failed national business ventures? I could go on, but I won't.
dankingbooks wrote on 11/09/2008 at 09:30 PM
Secularization
I guess I don't see Micheal's view that the country is becoming more secular. Surely demographics indicates otherwise. After all, who is having the most children? The answer are Mormons, orthodox Jews, evangelical Christians, and so forth. I don't see how one gets from that demographic trend to a more secular society?
avatar299 wrote on 11/09/2008 at 09:51 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Quoting claymisher: Yeesh. All these loony forecasts of doom about the upcoming Obama administration are going to sound even dumber four years from now than they do now. I don't think the wingers actually believe their forecasts. It's just how they're expressing their displeasure.
I'm expressing my displeasure too -- I have just about had it with journalists and pundits speculating on what Obama's really going to do, reading the tea leaves, looking for an angle. You know what Obama's going to do? What he said he'd do. He's spent two years talking about, 23 or so times debating, and written a whole book on what he's going to do. That's what he's going to do. Obviously we have checks and balances in our system so a lot will depend on what Congress wants. But the man has campaigned on a progressive agenda, fought off attacks on the progressive agenda, and won. So I'll bet on: a progressive agenda. What part of "no money" do you not get?
Obama ran on big government ventures and welfare checks to most of the country. Kinda hard to get all that stuff rolling in the middle of a recession.
Ocean wrote on 11/09/2008 at 09:52 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments
Quoting claymisher: Yeesh. All these loony forecasts of doom about the upcoming Obama administration are going to sound even dumber four years from now than they do now. I don't think the wingers actually believe their forecasts. It's just how they're expressing their displeasure.
I'm expressing my displeasure too -- I have just about had it with journalists and pundits speculating on what Obama's really going to do, reading the tea leaves, looking for an angle. You know what Obama's going to do? Hurray!! Obama will do the best he can! I want to support your statements. There is an important role for constructive criticism, but all this double guessing is going nowhere. The man has already been elected. He's planning what he needs to do. If the American people voted for him so unequivocally, why is there all of sudden so much mistrust? He is assessing resources and possibilities, and sticking to a prudent approach. What's wrong with that?
So I'll bet on: a progressive agenda. You bet!
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 09:59 PM
Re: the enormity of the anti Bush comments (PS)
Quoting DenvilleSteve: I think it is useless to make an assertion without backing it up with facts and examples. BHTV participants are constantly saying Bush is a disaster. They rarely follow that statement with an explanation. That is because, at this point, it is useless to spend the time typing it out. If you haven't figured it out for yourself by now, there will be no convincing you.
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 10:02 PM
Re: Free Will: Campus Politics
Quoting Ocean: Anyhow, I went off topic. The point was that we do have a wealth of information available which becomes ever larger and more difficult to filter, particularly for those of us who get so carried away when we find topics that are new or different from what we are used to. Would two or three lifetimes be enough to cover the material? At my input rate, no way. Seems to me the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know, and one of the few things that I do pick up on is that people are learning (and sharing) new things faster than I can keep up, almost no matter how narrowly I define my scope of interest.
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 10:10 PM
Re: Liberal Economics
Quoting Blackadder: I share Will's perplexity at the resistance of many liberals to the sorts of economic arguments typically put forth in favor of using market mechanisms as a means to bring about liberal ends. Depends what you mean by "many."
It also depends on what you mean -- in practice -- by "market mechanisms."
To the first I would say that I am not at all opposed to letting the market decide how most things are done, and I would also say that most reasonaly informed liberals (on this board, to pick a sample) share that view, more or less.
To the second I would say that the consequences of trusting the party that professes reverence for market forces as a panacea have mostly been crony capitalism, corporate welfare, growing inequity, outsourcing of jobs, decaying infrastructure, a hugely expensive war, health care costs growing far faster than inflation, and now, a collapse of the financial system. So, a little moderation is in order, for one, and for another, you should not be too surprised to hear people responding a little heatedly against "market mechanisms" when it's merely trotted out as a campaign slogan, particularly when it's used primarily as a way to demonize "liberals."
bjkeefe wrote on 11/09/2008 at 10:18 PM
Re: Secularization
Quoting dankingbooks: I guess I don't see Micheal's view that the country is becoming more secular. Surely demographics indicate | 
